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1 |
Hellow Shabeeb where are you now?. No response on your part? |
Salam |
8/17/2008 |
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2 |
Dear Shabeeb, we are constantly expecting you to replay for Salam's Questions. |
Abu Tasneem |
6/11/2008 |
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3 |
Dear Shabeeb before forgetting the topic I may say about something about the returning Salam. If one writes 'Salam' on a paper and gives it another is it necessary to return Salam? And if it is necessary, should it be in written form or spoken form?. And let me return to the discussion. 1. You brought some ayaas from Quraan. That is true. But you did not bring the proof for the inability of the dead to hear, because you yourself admitted that the dead will hear the sound of the chappals and you agreed that the dead will hear with the angels as mediators. So your very argument is built upon the inability of the dead to hear is collapsed. And moreover there is a Hadeeth in Saheeh Bukhari in which the messenger (SA) called the dead people after the battle of Badr "ya Fulan bin Fulan........." Then Umar (RA) asked "Why do you call the bodies without soul?" Then the messenger (SA) replied "You dont hear what I say than them (the dead)" This clearly shows that the dead will hear the voice of the living. And though they dont hear directly, as you believe, it is not a problem, because somehow they hear(ie, with the mediatorship of Angels). And you told that the Anbiya Mursaleen did not call the dead. Supposedly I may say: Do you say that if the Anbiya Mursaleen did not do a thing will it be Shirk? 2. You argue the dead will not hear without the mediatorship of the angels. I may counterargue the living also will not hear without the medetorship of the air.(So the mediatorship is not a serious matter. Dont hang on it). And you argued that The Messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam did not teach Istihgatha. It is not right. The Messenger of Allah Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam taught us : If you lose something or you want a help when you are in a land where no one help you, then you can call: YA IBADALLAH ….. AGHEETHOONEE (O the slaves of Allah! Help me). (Reported by Tabranee, Hakim, Bazzar and Aboo Awana) 3. Shabeeb can you bring any evidence for your argument the dead will hear only the sound of the chappal.? Did you not see the Hadeeth of the messenger which described above? (after the battle of Badr? 4. Shabeeb did you forget what Abu Tasneem told on this matter? When we do a sin against Allah it is hurting the messenger also. So we if we ask the forgiveness from him it is not Shirk and it is not assigning the power of Allah to any one else. It is the essence of Tauheed. Why did you bring the Aya “Iyyaka Na’abudu…….”?. Shabeeb dont you ask any help from anyone in the world?. Is it shirk to ask anyone ‘Please help me’? 5. The part of Aya you mentioned is a proof for the permissibity of Istighatha, because the Saliheen are seeking intermediacy of the nearer to Allah. |
Salam |
6/7/2008 |
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4 |
Sorry Salam, it is one's duty to return Salam and u adress him with hello and tried him to be hypocite these all things led me to reply. Anyway forget it let us come to the discussion. 1. I produced so many aayats which esbllishes the inability of dead people(ie, call for help will not reach to them), our rasool(sa)or anbiya mursaleengal or sahaabas have not called for help to any people who died. Rasool did not teach us to do so. 2. the angels of allah will reach our salam (ie, no pray or call for help etc..) to our rasool(SA). it means even he cannot hear directly our salam. the salam is taught by our rasool(sa). he didnt teach any ishigasa. 3. dead people will hear chappal sound only, not the sound of living human beings. 4. u can ask forgiveness of livng people if u hurt them. you cannot ask forgiveness to dead people. forgiver is allah. he is the gafoor. so by the isthigasa the power of almighty allah is assigned to his abds(slaves). it is shirk. it is against thouheedul asmaa' wa sifaath. In the surat ul fathiha we r promising allah that "iyyakka naabudu wa iyykka nastheen". we are worshipping you ONLY and we are asking help to you ONLY. Isthigasa is cleary the violation of this promise which we are doing so many times in a day. 5. the dead people are also seeking way for neareness of allah. so how can they help us. can u classify what are the calls or prays or helps(what ever it may be) u people are seeking from dead people and the same from allah? |
shabeeb |
6/5/2008 |
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5 |
Dear Shabeeb, i did not call Naufal a hypocrite. instead I suuggested him not to be, when I saw in him the tendency of hypocracy by showing his wrong identity. But Shabeeb you are courageous enough to show your actual identity. And dont run away from the actual discussion and dont forget to bring the evidence for your arguement,ie, asking help from the dead is Shirk. |
Salam |
6/5/2008 |
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6 |
Walaikum Assalam Noufal, It is an obligation of a muslim to return one's "SALAM". The people of Ahlusunant wa Jamaat have not been taught this. How dare you call brother Noufal "hypocrat". He started with Assalamu Alaikum, instead ...you started with Hello. The readers will decide who is hypocrat. Pls change ur name Salam. |
shabeeb |
6/4/2008 |
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7 |
It is better for all those who participate and view this discussion to view an article in the site on Tauheeda and Shirk the link is given below. you can copy it and paste on the address bar. http://www.islamsight.org/defaulttopic.asp?Rec=Tauheed%20And%20Shirk |
Abu Tasneem |
6/4/2008 |
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8 |
Hello NOUFAL dont be hypocrite. it is better for you to use the word 'your' instead of 'our'. Did you fully go through the discussion?. If you go through the opinions of the two sides you can find the hollowness of the brother Shabeeb. He firstly argued that asking from the dead is Shirk. But he never brought an evidence for it. instead he brought the 'evidence' for the inability of the dead to hear the voice of the living (which he himself changed).And can you bring any evidence for telling that Istighatha is Shirk. If you can not bring any evidence it is better for you to leave the Muslims without calling the Mushrik. If call a person unbeliever, either you or he will be the unbeliever. |
Salam |
6/4/2008 |
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9 |
Assalamu alaikum, It is very shameful to our Sunni brothers that brother Shabeeb is asked so many questions and forced us to bring evidences for Istigasa and from our side we could not bring even one Aya of quran or hadeez to stop him. |
NOUFAL |
6/4/2008 |
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10 |
Dear Shabeeb now we reached into the crux of the discussion. If I committ any sin it means I hurted the Messenger Sallallahu alaihi wasllam, because it is through him that we got the commands of Allah. It is our responsibility to obey the messenger (SA). Then if we do any sin it is as much to hurt the messenger (SA) by disobedience. May Allah protect us from the disobedience. (I MAY THANK SPECIALLY BROTHER SHABEEB FOR ASKING ME THE QUESTION, BECAUSE HIS QUESTION HELPED US TO REACH INTO THE CONCLUSTION) |
Abu Tasneem |
6/3/2008 |
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11 |
Dead people hear the chappal sound of living people is true, but it deosn't mean dead people will hear the call or help or speach of living people. No hadeeths of Rasool (SA) has been reported to prove that. Only Allah can give Magfirah and Shifaa etc and the things which are ghoib(athrushya kaaryangal). But u people are asking these things to Rasool and ouliyaas. It means you are assingning the power of Allah to others. It is Shirk. |
shabeeb |
6/3/2008 |
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12 |
Dear Brothers, Shabeeb's arguement is built upon a misunderstanding,ie; to ask forgiveness to a person is assigning the power of Allah to him. IF I ask you:PLEASE FORGIVE ME, is it assigning the power of Allah to you?. |
Abu Tasneem |
6/3/2008 |
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13 |
When u hurt a person then ask his forgiveness is not a problem. Abu Tasneem, I think u hurted Rasool (sa) and ouliyaas,that is why u asking forgiveness from them. |
shabeeb |
6/3/2008 |
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14 |
Dear Shabeeb now we reached into the crux of the discussion. If I committ any sin it means I hurted the Messenger Sallallahu alaihi wasllam, because it is through him that we got the commands of Allah. It is our responsibility to obey the messenger (SA). Then if we do any sin it is as much to hurt the messenger (SA) by disobedience. May Allah protect us from the disobedience. (I MAY THANK SPECIALLY BROTHER SHABEEB FOR ASKING ME THE QUESTION, BECAUSE HIS QUESTION HELPED US TO REACH INTO THE CONCLUSTION) |
Abu Tasneem |
6/3/2008 |
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15 |
Brother, I think u are in hurry to put an end this topic. I want to ask one question, if you commit a sin, to whom will you ask fogiveness? To Allah or to Rasool? |
shabeeb |
6/3/2008 |
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16 |
Brother, I think u are in hurry to put an end this topic. I want to ask one question, if you commit a sin, to whom will you ask fogiveness? To Allah or to Rasool? |
shabeeb |
6/3/2008 |
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17 |
You people are some time sticking with my one word or question or answer and also not answering all my questions and giving childish answers. My question is who tells u that dead people will hear requests, call for help and Maghfirat etc. You people are doing these things and you should bring evidences. 23 Yeard Rasool (SA) made Daawaa to his Sahabba. No single Duaa he not taught to his Sahaabas to call help from dead people |
shabeeb |
6/3/2008 |
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18 |
Dead people hear the chappal sound of living people is true, but it deosn't mean dead people will hear the call or help or speach of living people. No hadeeths of Rasool (SA) has been reported to prove that. Only Allah can give Magfirah and Shifaa etc and the things which are ghoib(athrushya kaaryangal). But u people are asking these things to Rasool and ouliyaas. It means you are assingning the power of Allah to others. It is Shirk. |
shabeeb |
6/2/2008 |
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19 |
Dear Shabeeb think and react. Dont jump into opinions. Firstly you told that the asking of help from the Rasool Kareem is DEFINITELY Shirk. And the evidence brought by you is INNAKA LA TUSMI'UL MOUTA. You brought this verse for establishing the inability of the dead to hear. And later you corrected your self by admitting the arguement of Salam. And your responsibility of bringing an evidence is hanging on your shoulder. |
Abu Tasneem |
6/2/2008 |
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20 |
And moreover I thank you for admitting that the dead will hear. |
Salam |
6/2/2008 |
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21 |
It is the obligation of those who argue to bring the evidence for the arguement. You argued that asking help from the messenger SA is Shirk. But you did not bring the proof. So you have to prove your arguement. You broght some verses from Quraan. But nowhere the evidence is found. |
Salam |
6/2/2008 |
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22 |
Yes, Salam it is true. But it is not the proof for ISTHIGHAZA. I need evidence from Quraan or Hadeeth. Bcz if Alalh allowed his slaves to do ISTHIGHAZA definitely He gives the order in Quraan or gives permission to His messenger Mohmed (SA). We should follow Quraan and Sunnat and should not blindly follow scholars. |
shabeeb |
6/1/2008 |
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23 |
The messenger of Allah has told that the dead will hear the sound of the chappals of the living people.(it may be with the help of the angels. But somehow they will hear). |
Salam |
6/1/2008 |
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24 |
Dear Salam, pls read 1. Surattul Naml 80(27:80)
"innaka la thasmiuul moutha". Meaning: MARANAPPETTAVARE NINKKU KELPPIKKANAKUKAYILLA, THEERCHA
2. Suratul Fathir 22 (35:22)"wama antha bimusmiin man fil kuboor" Meaning: NINKKU KHABARILULLAVARE KELPPIKKANAKILLA".
NABIKKU (SA) SALAM CHOLLUNNATHUM AVIDUNNU KELKKUNNILLA.
NABI (SA)TOLD "UNNATHANUM PRATAHAPIYUMAYA ALLAHUVINU BHOOMIYIL SANCHARIKKUNNA MALAKKUKALUNDU. AVAR ENTE UMMATHIL NINNULLA SALAM ENIKKU ETHICHU KONDIRIKKUM (AHMED)
pls explain this. And you are not presenting any ayaths or hadeezs that which supporting ur arguments. Why? Should explain ur arguments by presenting Quraan Ayaths or Hadeez (saheeh). I brought too many ayaths for establishing my arguments , but you people telling things without any proof. Why??? |
shabeeb |
5/31/2008 |
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25 |
Shabeeb, it is the first time that I know if one raises one's hand at the time of asking someone it is prayer. I think you might be the first person to define the prayer in such a way. Have you not looked to what Abu Tasneem told that no Sunnis pray to other than Allah? And it is a new arguement in the Islamic world that no dead man will be able to hear. The messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wasallam has instructed the Muslims that the dead will hear the sound of the chappals of the people who pass near the grave. Dear Shabeeb if you cant understand the meaning of Quraan personally please approach a good scholar and clarify the meaning of Quraanic verses. We are commanded by the Messenger of Allah not to explain the Quraan on our own. He has warned us about the hell for those who explain Quraan on their own. |
Salam |
5/31/2008 |
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26 |
Shabeeb, it is the first time that I know if one raises one's hand at the time of asking someone it is prayer. I think you might be the first person to define the prayer in such a way. Have you not looked to what Abu Tasneem told that no Sunnis pray to other than Allah? And it is a new arguement in the Islamic world that no dead man will be able to hear. The messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihi wasallam has instructed the Muslims that the dead will hear the sound of the chappals of the people who pass near the grave. Dear Shabeeb if you cant understand the meaning of Quraan personally please approach a good scholar and clarify the meaning of Quraanic verses. We are commanded by the Messenger of Allah not to explain the Quraan on our own. He has warned us about the hell for those who explain Quraan on their own. |
Salam |
5/31/2008 |
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27 |
Brother, Allah clearly told in quraan that you can not hear deads. Who teaches you to call help to Rasool(SA). Rasool or Allah? we know Rasool (SA) completed here deenul ismlam. so we cannot add or omit anything from it and you are doing the things which is totally strange to our rasool's sunnat. can u bring any incident that Rasool or Sahaaba called help from any abd(slave) of allah. You can pray Allah only . Prarthana is also ibadath. you people are raising two hands up to the sky and crying "save us yaa sayyidina.... " like that. is it not pray? so what is the difference between call help to those who are died and pray to allah? I have asked too many questions. But nobody answered so far. |
shabeeb |
5/31/2008 |
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28 |
Dear Salam, pls read 1. Surattul Naml 80(27:80)
"innaka la thasmiuul moutha". Meaning: MARANAPPETTAVARE NINKKU KELPPIKKANAKUKAYILLA, THEERCHA
2. Suratul Fathir 22 (35:22)"wama antha bimusmiin man fil kuboor" Meaning: NINKKU KHABARILULLAVARE KELPPIKKANAKILLA".
NABIKKU (SA) SALAM CHOLLUNNATHUM AVIDUNNU KELKKUNNILLA.
NABI (SA)TOLD "UNNATHANUM PRATAHAPIYUMAYA ALLAHUVINU BHOOMIYIL SANCHARIKKUNNA MALAKKUKALUNDU. AVAR ENTE UMMATHIL NINNULLA SALAM ENIKKU ETHICHU KONDIRIKKUM (AHMED)
pls explain this. And you are not presenting any ayaths or hadeezs that which supporting ur arguments. Why? Should explain ur arguments by presenting Quraan Ayaths or Hadeez (saheeh). I brought too many ayaths for establishing my arguments , but you people telling things without any proof. Why??? |
shabeeb |
5/31/2008 |
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29 |
Alhamdulillah! Now our brother Shabeeb got ready to give us the defenition of Tauheed and Shirk. Firstly I may thank him for his courage, because normally the whole salers of Shirk dont give any clear definition for the same. Now we entered into the actual discussion.
According to him "SHIRK IS ASSIGNING THE POWERS OF ALLAH TO OTHERS AND TO PRAY AND CALL OTHER THAN ALLAH"
Let me say some points as below
1.No sunnis who ask help from the Rasool Sallallahu alaihi wasallam assign any power of Allah to The Messenger (SA).
2. We Sunnis dont pray to other than Allah. But only asks the help (Isthighatha) from the pious people.
3. We dont believe that callig other than Allah is Shirk. Dear Shabeeb think if you call your friend, is it Shirk? |
Abu Tasneem |
5/30/2008 |
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30 |
DEAR BROTHERS, PLS REFER AL-BAKARA 186, 19:20, 50:16, 10:18. OPEN UR HEARTS AND READ THESE VERSES OF QURAAN VERY CAREFULLY. DONT FOLLOW ANY SCHOLARS AND U THINK WHAT QURAAN SAID. IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT SHIRK IS ASSIGNING THE POWERS OF ALLAH TO OTHERS AND PRAY AND CALL OTHERS EXCEPT ALLAH. YOU PEOPLE ARA CALLING AND PRAYING TO ABDUL KADER JEELANI AND TOO MANY OTHRES EVEN TO RASOOL KAREEM (SA). WHY U ARE NOT BELEIVING IN ALLHAS POWER. HE NOT NEED ANY MEDIATERS OR DALLALS. HE IS VERY CLOSE TO US. PLS PRAY TO HIM. SURELY HE WILL HELP US. CAN U SAY ANY TEACHINGS OR PRAY OF MOHMMED RASOOL (SA) THAT HE CALLED OR PRAYED OTHER THAN ALLAH. WE KNOW HOW MANY PROBLEMS AND CRISIS FACED HIM AND HIS SAHAABAS AND THEY NEVER CALLED ANY OULIYAAS OR SHEIKHS OR FORMER PROPHETS LIKE YOU PEOPLE DOING NOW A DAYS.
ALLAH TOLD IN QURAAN "ASK ME I WILL ANSWER YOU". MAY GOD BLESS ALL OF US AND SHOW THE RIGHT PATH |
shabeeb |
5/29/2008 |
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31 |
Dear Brothers in Islam,
This is the way by which some people are telling the things. They will argue something and they will not bring proof for that. Now our brother Shabeeb expressed his astonishment at some people who were calling the messenger of Allah Sallallah alaihi wasallam. He he asserted that it is Shirk. But he could not bring the proof and even the definition of the same. I think he is one of our Muslim brothers who were inluenced by the propaganda of Wahhabi Moulavis who are lead by mere passion more then thought. May Allah enlighten our brothers into the right path. |
Observer |
5/20/2008 |
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32 |
Dear Shabeeb, If some body is telling not to do it, then bring the proof for the same. If you peoples ar telling it is shirk, then bring the proof, then we can close the subject instead flooding the mails. |
shaheen |
4/27/2008 |
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33 |
This is not the way to discuss on matter. If one argues anything it is upon him to give the evidence and to prove it. Suppose if one argues about a particular thing to be Shirk it is his duty to define first what is Shirk and then establish his arguement. This is the basic rule of arguement. |
Salam |
4/25/2008 |
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34 |
If asking help, magfirat, shifaa to Rasool Kareem (SA) is not Shirk what is it?
Pls expliain? You all people knows better than me about Shirk, so pls define? |
shabeeb |
4/24/2008 |
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35 |
Assalaamu alaikum,
I agree with you brother salam, i hope shaheeb should give explanation about what is shirk and what is Thouheed. |
shaheen |
4/24/2008 |
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36 |
Dear Friends pls define first what is Shirk. Then consider what will be shirk and what will be Tauheed. |
Salam |
4/12/2008 |
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37 |
In the Suratul Sukuraf the Ayat no.45 meaning of "ask to fomer Prophets" is - most of the Quraan Interpretor's opinion is "ask to the society who are believing in former prophets , especially to the shcolars". No evidence yet been brought for proving Our Prophet Mohmed (S.A) had called or asked help or Magfirah or Shifaa to former prophets and 4 Khaleefa and Sahabba kareem also not done. We know how many incidents and crisis faced by our Prophet (S.A) and he called or sought or prayed(whatever it may be) to Allah only in his entire life. " Is Allah enough for his slave" - Quraan. "Allah is closer than your throat" |
shabeeb |
4/10/2008 |
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38 |
Shabeeb, Can you please go through the surah-Sukhruf (43), ayat no. 45. |
shaheen |
4/10/2008 |
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39 |
Assalaamu alaikum, Shabeeb - If we are in sick normally we are going to Doctor. Is it Shirk? |
shaheen |
4/10/2008 |
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40 |
It is a mistake on the part some people who use the word 'prayer' to asking help from the Auliyas of Allah. Before going more to the discussion, the technical words 'prayer', 'worship, and the like should be defined. Otherwise the time will be spent in meaningless activity. |
Salam |
4/9/2008 |
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41 |
Assalamu alaikum,
Salam, if you are sick or you are in a trouble to whom will you pray? |
shabeeb |
4/8/2008 |
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42 |
Please define first what is Shirk. And then you go on your whole sale of Shirk. If you consider one who asks help from the prophet as Mushrik, the greatet scholars of Islam including Imam Aboo Haneefa will be considered as Mushrik by you. Subhanallah! |
Salam |
4/3/2008 |
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43 |
I was stunned when I saw one cd in which some scholars and some people are gathered around a mic and asking help, shifaa from diseases, isthigfarah and so many things to Rasool Kareem (SA). It is definitely shirk. |
shabeeb |
4/2/2008 |
